I joined the Urdd the Welsh League of Youth ; read the Mabinogion a collection of Welsh mythological stories in school; and I spoke Welsh so fluently I barely noticed when people switched from English to Welsh. With the Scottish independence referendum looming, debates about what Britain is and who the British are have become more significant. Our unique cultures and languages are habitually erased in favour of an umbrella Englishness. In the case of Irish, there are rules but they are very complicated and not readily understandable for learners.
English is of course a different matter altogether. Not even Monty Python could have come up with such a silly spelling no offence intended. Of all the more than languages that exist in the world, none has a more inconsistent, unlogic and bizarre ortography than English or possibly Manx.
The same thing can be done for the regularities of English I could easily list 50 major inconsistences in Englisg spelling but not one in Welsh. But to get back to the original question. Welsh is a very easy language to learn. Not only is it much easier than Irish, it is indeed one of the easiest Indo-European languages. What do you think are the most complicated things about Irish spelling? I always hated those f's that we don't pronounce in the future tense ie caithfidh.
I don't find anything hard in Irish spelling, but that's of course because I know it. For beginners, it's almost impossible. Generally speaking, the ideal according to most is the golden rule that there is just one letter for each sound and just one sound for each letter. Languages such as Serbian Cyrillic alphabet and Finnish Latin alphabet are examples of such languages. Once you know the alphabet, you immediately know how a word should be pronounced even if you haven't seen it before.
Few languages are as regular, but most are fairly regular. German, Italian, Spanish and Russian generally follow that golden rule, although with some exceptions in each language. French is already deviating quite strongly, but at least there is some regularity in French spelling. The "problem" in Irish or English spelling is that the link between a given letter and sound is very weak. How is "e" pronounced in English?
Irish is not as bad, but what confuses learners are the many silent letters. In contrast to English, these are determined by rules, so Irish is closer to French in this regard. Both have rules although they don't follow the golden rule mentioned already. English is just a mess. I find it interesting that native speakers of these three irregular languages are so much worse than other Europeans when it comes to learning foreign languages. As is well known, far less people in the UK, Ireland and France speak any foreign language as compared to other European countries.
Is it because their own language is a dominating world language or is it because the inconsistencies in their alpabets? It could of course be a combination of both I have been studying Irish for quite a while so perhaps I am more indulgent or tolerant of Irish because I am more familiar with it, warts and all. I actually would like to learn some Welsh as my grandmother was able to speak some. Just out of curiosity, what Welsh courses would you suggest as the most helpful?
And while I'm at it, what Irish courses would you suggest? I have been somewhat disappointed in the courses that attempt to meld the various Irish dialects: a native Irish-speaker once told me the "generic" Irish made one sound as if they were in the media.
Another question I had posed on the Welsh messageboard was as to why you never see Welsh shown in the IPA; I personally would find it useful even tho the Welsh speakers respond that the language is so phonetic that it isn't necessary. Yet there are courses utilizing English-based phonetic spellings, and we all know about English spelling.
I still feel that the Gaelics except for Manx handle the mutations better because of the "eclipsis" and "aspiration" spelling conventions, but that's a subjective judgment on my part. Some very good questions there. There are at least three rather good Welsh courses around.
Colloquial Welsh is the most extensive and I'd probably recommend that one. Knowing it was enough for me to be able to get around Wales in Welsh, the Welsh are very friendly when you learn Welsh and very forgiving of learner mistakes.
In Ireland, many people immediately switch to English if they notice you're a learner, but in Wales they just speak a bit slower. I'd definitely recommend Learning Irish as the best Irish course around. It focuses on one single dialect and is very extensive. It's probably the only Irish course that has been translated into some other languages than English.
As for Welsh rarely being showed in IPA, there's a very logic explanation. Most Irish, English and French dictionaries include IPA for the pronunciation and quite a few language courses on these languages do so as well.
The reason is that beginners, or even more advanced learners, often have problems knowing how to pronounce words correctly. If you look at a Finnish text and the same text in IPA, you'll find that they look almost identical. I'm almost sure that's the reason, there isn't really any need to show Welsh in IPA. There are cases in which IPA is used. Your English is fine!
I've been to Brittany and am interested in Breton, however I can't speak it and I find the grammar very complex. It's also hard since almost all the material for learning Breton is in French and I'm only learning French at the moment.
Do you speak Breton? I 'm used to the eclipsis we have also in breton language,. I heard breton when I was young but it's at the age of 14 that I started speaking so I'm not a real native speaker. Cymraeg is so strong that people you don't know ask you for fags or to sign for a protest in welsh when you are passing by in the street.!
In brittany I know the people to speak breton with them. It's hard to put my finger on it exactly but I find Irish is a bit more like other languages- perhaps because it has loan-words from French, Latin and English. I know Welsh does too but I just find it harder to recognise what's going on in a Welsh phrase, the pronunciation is tricky for me and the mutation of the words and spelling changes also.
I thought it would be more similar to Irish and while I do see some similarities in vocabulary it's not as intuitive to me as some other languages. That's just my experience , that said, I do enjoy the challenge and will continue on with this ancient tongue.
If you've lived in Ireland or Scotland for all of your life and you have heard the language every once in a while, then you'll naturally find that easier to learn.
On the other hand, if you've lived in Wales or Brittany and you've had a few interactions with those languages you'll find that easier. Then there is the factor of personal motivation, which I think is the most important one. Learning with others allows you to check your understanding. You get to see people, get to know people, and get to practice natural conversation. This makes a huge difference.
The opportunity to learn online has been fantastic, especially for people living in rural areas who now have the same opportunities as those in urban areas. During the course we were split into break out rooms to practice over and over again. You get to the point quicker and spend the maximum time learning.
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